MediaWiki talk:Sidebar
It has been requested on the forum that the link be put back on the sidebar. It's the official Wiki 24 forum so I didn't see any problem with it. --24 Administration 21:35, 31 May 2007 (UTC) : Please provide some justification for this forum being the "official Wiki 24 forum." None of our regular editors use it. It's frequented by spambots more than it is by humans. It promotes a competing site. It provides nothing that Wiki 24 itself doesn't, other than refuge for those who don't like this site. Creating our own on-site forum like those at Memory Alpha and Wookieepedia would be a really good idea if anyone knows how to go about it. --Proudhug 21:59, 31 May 2007 (UTC) :: I find all of your points invalid and furthermore feel that they are being compelled by a personal dislike of several members of the forum who have differing views to your own. I will outline your points: * justification for this forum being the "official Wiki 24 forum." It was requested by Wiki 24 users originally and was thus created as an official forum. If you cannot recall this then this is the discussion about it in the Situation Room. You yourself said that it would be "awesome to have a forum". * It's frequented by spambots more than it is by humans. The spambot problem is, unfortunatly, uncontrolable and if you have knowledge of how to stop this then it would be greatly appriciated. * It promotes a competing site. The forum does not "promote a competing site" for several reasons: 1. Wiki 24 does not have a competing site. We are not a commercial entity so it is impossible for us to have a commercial site. 2. The forum does not promote any sites. Users have voiced their support for different sites but that is what they are allowed to do. It is called a forum because it is a forum for ideas and discussion. If that discussion was blocked and we changed every post which said anything bad about Wiki 24 then it would not be a forum. * None of our regular editors use it. You will find that everyone who uses that forum has an account on Wiki 24. You are free to sign up yourself at anytime if you wish to take part in active discussion on the project and also on a wide range of other issues. I for one am getting tired of how community discussion on the wiki is going downhill and decisions are being made by just one user when it should be debated. Many users' work has been deleted without discussion or warning. This is a wiki, a community project, not one users personal website. What's wrong with having a link to the forum on the side? If it is really a personal problem then that is not an acceptable reason. The forum does not hurt the wiki and neither does putting a link to it on the side. : Thank you for your response. Let me just start off by saying for the record that I have no "personal dislike" of any of our editors past or present, other than vandals. It's unfortunate that this misconception will naturally seem tied to my disapproval of your forum, but I offer you my assurance that it's simply not true. I appreciate that you went to a lot of trouble to get an off-site forum started, and tried to spark interest in it. When the idea of a Wiki 24 forum was proposed, it was meant to be an on-site forum, much like the ones on Memory Alpha, Wookieepedia, and the main Wikia site. You went in a different direction, and that's fine, but for whatever reason, it doesn't seem to have worked. An on-site forum would not only be free of spambots, but it would really help connect all of our editors together and centralize general discussions, making topics easier for others to find and join in on, as well as strengthen the community. And I think that connecting our editors and getting everyone on the same page is the most important thing here. That's what community is about. I really don't like the idea of there being those who post on the forum, and those who edit the site. There's no need for the segregation. : As far as "community discussion on the wiki going downhill," I totally feel your frustration. It often seems like I myself have to bear the weight of all the major decisions here, due to inactive discussions. But the fact of the matter is that unless others speak up, there's really no other choice. I'm all for debates, even when I lose. Especially when I lose! This discussion right here is a perfect example. I would feel infinitely better about things if we had several other of our regular editors joining in with their thoughts on matters, rather than one or two people making all the decisions here. You're right, it's not one user's personal website, so I beg of everyone to come forward with your opinions when you have them. Otherwise, we have nothing to go on and I look like a tyrant! ;-) :I'm not sure how much presence you've had here recently, 24 Administration, but things have changed quite a bit from a year ago. The beautiful thing about wikis is how they evolve, and Wiki 24 is no exception. Everyone here, including myself, is learning more and more every day about how to work as a community and express our love for all things 24, while at the same time respecting everyone else's hard work, dedication and ideas for improvement. I'm extremely proud of this site and its wonderful base of editors, past and present. --Proudhug 03:28, 2 June 2007 (UTC) :: Seeing that a lack of user discussion is part of the problem, I think it would be irresponsible not to drop my thoughts on this here. Part of the reason I haven't registered over to the forum is because it isn't integrated like the star wars one, but primarily it is because the types of discussions aren't the sort of detail-monger stuff toward which I gravitate. For example, me and PH are currently trying to figure out if one letter in a character's name is capitalized or not. Most may laugh, and such a discussion would probably be ignored or derided on a forum, but I find just this kind of thing fascinating. :: Also, although people have certainly read this exchange here, I'm pretty sure they are sitting this one out because, well, the two co-founders are on either side of the issue. As open to discussion as you both always are (and as I know personally from recent interactions), I think people aren't active on this one because of who exactly you both are. :: In terms of a solution, could we just link to the current forum without calling it official, and keep it until an integrated one is eventually installed? I know nothing about forum-creation and the like, so I have no clue if that solution is even workable, but there's my rookie idea on the table. – Blue Rook 06:39, 2 June 2007 (UTC)talk : Thanks, Blue Rook. I'd guessed the reason for lack of activity in these discussions was because of the "who" and not so much the "what," so thanks for bringing it up. If this is truly people's attitude, it's extremely unfortunate. As you know, I've never discouraged any of our editors from joining in on even the most significant of issues, and have always reinforced the fact that we all have equal say here. Founder, adminstrator, regular editor, or anonymous user... all input is taken with exactly the same weight, no matter the importance of the issue. I realize it may be intimidating sometimes, but I hope more people can get past this and feel confidant in lending their thoughts on things more often. If the trend continues as is, whether it be due to timidity or the mere lack of opinion, I can hardly be blamed for personally commandeering the majority of the policy on the site. : My reasons for not registering on the forum are all 100% exactly the same as yours, Blue Rook. I've browsed it once or twice and don't recall seeing any constructive posts for Wiki 24. Being a separate website also makes it feel disjointed, so if an issue comes up, I'd rather post it on a Talk page or in the Situation Room where I know it'll be seen. I like your suggested solution for the problem. The forum is still linked in the Situation Room, which I think is sufficient for the time being until we get an integrated forum going. --Proudhug 14:15, 2 June 2007 (UTC) ::I'm afraid that I wasn't very clear about my point. I was more angry about the fact that my edit was reverted without any discussion or any other sort of notification. That was what I meant when saying that discussion was being scarce. --24 Administration 19:15, 4 June 2007 (UTC) : I do understand what you're saying, and for the most part I've gotten better at providing reasons for things like this. However it is easy to get into the habit of just being bold and going ahead with decisions, knowing that trying to spark up discussions about these things is almost always futile. Regardless, I always listen to feedback and rebuttles on things. I take everyone's opinion seriously, and always try to help the site reflect the community's opinion on what's best, rather than just my own. --Proudhug 03:47, 5 June 2007 (UTC)